Saturday, March 7, 2009

Column: Dirty Uncle WTVOC's Fandom Guide to Reviews Column



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I feel the impending deadline looming. Too many things. Too many eggs in one basket.

So I wrote my ginormous term research paper first because apparently, I’m a responsible adult. Then I wrote an update to MHBL. Then this blog.

I hope the MHBL update doesn’t suck donkey schlong. But if it does? There’s a few of you who will let me know.

Yes, that was my lame segue way into today’s rule:
1. Don’t ask for an update.
2. Your words can hurt. Have a care before clicking “submit”.
3. We love it when you love it.
4. Constructive criticism can be appreciated as long as it’s not rude.

Yeah, that kind of sounds like an extension of rule number two, but it’s really a whole ‘nother topic altogether. Here’s the thing: with very few exceptions, fanfiction writers are not professionals. Or should I say- we don’t get paid to entertain you. Most of us are not even trained via degree of the Arts variety, and many of us are still in college or bored Mommies or what-have-you. A LOT OF US DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK WE’RE DOING.

So… the more thick-skinned amongst us can take criticism, and a lot of us actually look forward to it. Tell me what I’m doing wrong! I’m floundering here!

(Yeah, that’s not me. But I asked a bunch of other writers to give me a soundbite on this, and I got some good and varied and some err… spirited responses.)

But you tell me about a fic writer who gets the “in the sixth paragraph of this chapter, you spelled it ‘you’re’ instead of ‘your’” and tells the reviewer to perform fellatio on their own mother via review response, and I’ll tell you about the writer of an uber-popular fic who got a review questioning whether Edward would really, truly think like that- and the fic writer starts to question their motivations for fic writing, for ever having purchased their new MacBook Pro, and whether they should shuffle this mortal coil in a nosedive of emo-ness that makes them cry into their corn flakes for days.

The thing is this- there’s constructive and there’s plain ole complainin’.

For example: there are two ways to say “Huh?”

What? I don’t get it. Why are they in a lake?

That’s not exactly rude (trust. These can get rude), but it ain’t really constructive, either.

So, they’re in a lake. I get that. But is there a deeper meaning? I think I may have missed something. Could you explain that, please?

or possibly

I think the lake is being used as a metaphor here, but if so, either it’s a little confusing, or I’m completely lost. Maybe both. Could you possibly clarify that for me?

Sure, the distinction is subtle. But that first one is flat and to me, it reads rude. Kind of like the difference between saying “Is there salt?” and “Would you please pass me the salt, if it’s not too much trouble?”
So, how to be constructive without being rude?

I went the cheap way to answer. Here’s what other authors have to say:

Constructive criticism doesn't imply you have to be mean. Say things in a nice way and point out that you're just trying to help.cdunbar

[A] reader pointed out possible concerns that I may have otherwise overlooked while writing Chapter 45. Now I realize that addressing them, even in a minor way, would make my plot more feasible to the audience. Usually, when my readers offer truly constructive crit, they are doing so for multiple reasons: Firstly, because they want to see me progress as a writer, and because they are invested in the story and want to see it executed to its full potential, and lastly, because they truly appreciate the work. A real constructively critical review is fic gold. Key word: Constructive.angstgoddess003

When given correctly, criticism can help a writer grow. It is what authors want, not to be told just that something doesn't work but WHY it doesn't work so the writer can think about how to defend their points better in the future.emibella

Constructive criticism can be incredibly helpful to a story and an author. I mean, we all have room for improvement. Constructive criticism can help you realize a plot hole you weren't aware of (we do all sometimes make mistakes) , if something seems out of character, or maybe just that they don't like where you're taking the story. I don't always agree with what is said, but as long as it's worded with respect, I always welcome and appreciate it. It's much better than just lying and saying you enjoyed something when you didn't. And I love when I can respond and figure out why they felt that way.americnxidiot (ASK PAT IF YOU CAN BUY A VOWEL NEXT TIME, WOMAN)

I like con crit if it is specific. Like, if it is a style criticism, say : you use too many adjectives.
If it is a plot crit: I can't believe you made this happen; that's totally counterproductive.
GIVE ME SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT IF YOU'RE GONNA CRITICIZE ME.
thallium81/jfly/babysitter extraordinaire

There is a difference between being criticized and having your work constructively criticized.
I think someone mentioned once before the “sandwich” technique for giving feedback, and when I'm reviewing and have something I didn't like or found “off”, that is the method I use. Start and end with the positives and the meat, cheese and condiments are the points that you had issue with. At least that way, though you are indicating topics that need work, you're still padding the blow by giving them something to build upon.
ninapolitan (who won an award from me for relating condiments to reviews)

It should be relevant to the chapter you are reviewing, and it should make sense. If you are going to criticize something, make sure you actually know what you are pointing out. Half the ones I get are actually addressed in the chapter and I’m not sure if pointing out grammar or typos count as a review, but that may just be me. I mean, if you said, “This chapter was okay but I was horribly distracted by the typos,” etc., then that would be better than “This chapter was great. You need a beta.”edwardzukorocks/angel/loverofdavidboreanaz

Never comment on style or technique, as it's not your place to criticize such a personal thing in a review. In fact, keep constructive criticism limited to PM's.jenwordsong

Being critical is fine, as long as you are NICE. Writers know that they sometimes lose readers, but what they almost never know is WHY. If you can articulate the weaknesses of a chapter and how that sits within your own preferences, then you are helping that author. Be honest with yourself though. If you don't like a story because of a bias, e.g. you almost always hate Jacob/Bella, put that in there, too - that way the author will get the full picture.pastiche pen the porn peddler

You take it in stride because you have to, because you know deep down it'll make you better. You hope that whoever wrote it wants you to improve because they understand what you're doing and they want it to be as good as it can be, but you fear they're just complaining to be a dick, that they want to get under your skin because they have nothing better to do. You really have to be open to the criticism for it to do any good; you can't run around thinking you're infallible and that no one has anything to offer because you'd be wrong.
If I give advice, it means that I believe in what you're doing and that I want your piece to be as good as you want it to be. It doesn't mean that I think you're shit, or that I'm the all-knowing, all-powerful sensei. It doesn't mean you have to take it, and it certainly doesn't mean that I need to get a three page reply note listing all the reasons why my opinion is wrong. All it means is that I know you can be better and I'll back you every step of the way. We're all learning, all growing, and none of us is going to get stronger if we're just constantly patted on the back and told that everything is wonderful and nothing is wrong. That's what I like about fanfiction. It's a community coming together to support each other and foster talent.'”
-upthedownslide

If you truly respect the writer, you will want them to be better. Feeding to their ego will not help them. It breeds complacency, and they won’t feel the need to grow.
Don’t be personal in constructive crit, because we have enough psycho bullies out there.
Don’t curse, mind your manners.
And don’t try to tell how to write our story- “I wish the characters would just fuck already”-
But if one of the characters is getting obnoxious with their snark, tell us.
If we use a metaphor that you don’t understand, tell us.
But don’t say "I don’t understand" and not point out what specifically is confusing you.
gallantcorkscrews (I love that I had to beta that, gcs. Heh heh)

It should be specific in nature, and preferably given by someone who knows what the fuck they are talking about. -siDEADde




So there you have it. All excellent points, really. I’d like to point out that I bombarded those lovely broads in their chat boxes, so I edited the typos and added capitalization, etc. These responses were all pretty much off the top of their heads, too.

Now, I could go on about it, but I think they’ve all covered the topic nicely. THANKS FOR DOING MY JOB FOR ME, LADIES. BACK TO MY HIDEY-HOLE OF PRE-CLINICAL PAPERWORK.




wtvoc’s quickie etiquette rule number four:

Requests in reviews. Stop it. This ain’t so much a quickie topic, but whatever. I know I’m not the only author who gets these.

o I get asked to beta. Like, a lot. While I would love to clean up most of the stuff out there, I simply don’t have the time. I love that you asked, but I’ll just say here and now that the answer is “no”. Forever and to everyone unless you can prove you’re Rob, just… no.
o I wish I could read your story. I do. But I don’t even have time to read what I have on alert, much less add something new to the rotation. I applaud you for jumping into fanfiction, though. Kudos!
o I am not taking story ideas at this time. In fact… I never have. Thank you, though.
o Yes, that sounds great. But no, that’s not what I’m going to have Edward/Bella/Jasper/Carlisle/Karl the Janitor doing for the next chapter. Speculation is fine; saying “you should do this” is not. Unless you know me, and you know that I will take it as the joke that it is.
o No, I have no idea which anime story that is and I most certainly will not write you a birthday fanfic Twilight crossover oneshot. (I really got that request once. I laughed for days.)




withthevampsofcourse's Must Have Been Love and Welcome Home are treasures of the sexy snark lovers. Her collaborations include Saturday School and Scotch, Gin and The New Girl and also betas 5464686486 fics. She is a colloborator on the Twilight FF Awards - The Eddies & The Bellies. This sister soldier of Brown may talk dirty and throw down even dirtier, but her class knows no bounds.
wtvoc on FF
The Eddies & The Bellies

12 comments:

  1. Bravo! Love this topic! For obvious reasons *quirks eyebrow all serious-like* Now I must rant and quotate (is this a word? ah, fuck it.)

    Much thanks for writing such a cohesive entry regarding CON CRIT.

    "Or should I say- we don’t get paid to entertain you. Most of us are not even trained via degree of the Arts variety, and many of us are still in college or bored Mommies or what-have-you. A LOT OF US DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK WE’RE DOING."

    Amen sista. Just... a-freaking-men.

    "It's much better than just lying and saying you enjoyed something when you didn't. And I love when I can respond and figure out why they felt that way."

    I agree americnxidiot. Praise is lovely, but if you feel I didn't live up to the praise, by all means, leave me some con-crit so I will in the future. And is awesome to respond and really get a good view on what they feel. This is why anon bugs me. There's no way way to pick their brains and find where you went wrong.

    Ninapolitan: DUDE... I LIVE by the sandwich technique. Positive, negative, positive. Not only does it soften the blow, but it shows that the reader isn't just looking for things to bash, and actually do enjoy something. If they enjoyed nothing, they wouldn't be reading. UNLESS, they were just looking for ammo.

    "Never comment on style or technique, as it's not your place to criticize such a personal thing in a review. "

    Interesting. I never thought about that really. I suppose style is a fairly subjective thing though. That's like picking on Picasso because his art isn't realism. Well, yeah. That's just how the dude expressed himself. Doesn't make him bad, just makes him unique. I don't what i'm saying anymore. I'm ending this before I say something ridic. <3

    "You take it in stride because you have to, because you know deep down it'll make you better. You hope that whoever wrote it wants you to improve because they understand what you're doing and they want it to be as good as it can be, but you fear they're just complaining to be a dick, that they want to get under your skin because they have nothing better to do. " UTDS...

    I sigh. I often have this issue. Yes, crit is soooo necessary. When someone is being outwardly rude/malicious/harsh, it makes the author wonder if they're just being an ass to be an ass. I mean, if the story sucks as bad as they say... why are they even reading it? It makes the author suspicious of the motives behind the reviewer. Are they only commenting to insult me? If so, should I heed their advice? Or should I ignore them when they are obviously only wishing to make me feel like shit? It eclipses the purpose of the comments (something that probably COULD have been useful crit to the author, but was overshadowed by the malicious attitude of the person submitting them), and then all that emerges from the action is a helluva lot of anger and negativity. No good. No good at all...

    "If you truly respect the writer, you will want them to be better. Feeding to their ego will not help them. It breeds complacency, and they won’t feel the need to grow.
    Don’t be personal in constructive crit, because we have enough psycho bullies out there.
    Don’t curse, mind your manners.
    And don’t try to tell how to write our story- “I wish the characters would just fuck already”-
    But if one of the characters is getting obnoxious with their snark, tell us.
    If we use a metaphor that you don’t understand, tell us." GCS

    BAHAHAAH. Psycho bullies. I has them. It's true that TRUE con crit is a labor of love from the reviewer. They are really putting themselves out there by doing it. For the record... I fucking love it when my reviewers curse (to me and not AT me... well.. okay, maybe even AT me...). But... that's just me. Plus I can hardly expect them to read 45 WA darkward chaps and not say "fuck" a few times. But it can be rude to some. Best to not do it, and be safe. Good advice. Now I feel all nervous about... well... every single review I've EVER left. Eek.

    It should be specific in nature, and preferably given by someone who knows what the fuck they are talking about. -siDEADde

    I'm framing this...

    "No, I have no idea which anime story that is and I most certainly will not write you a birthday fanfic Twilight crossover oneshot."

    God. I think I peed myself a little.

    ReplyDelete
  2. interestingly enough i received a anon. review today asking me to have bella walk in on a naked Edward to move the plot along.

    errrr.....no. but thanks anyway right? oh yeah, it was anon so i can't respond.

    oh well.

    good article wtv. excellent.

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  3. In college we were taught to look at it this way:

    Criticism makes you mad

    but

    Constructive Criticism makes you think

    wtvoc, great article... we need to make this a ten part series. BWAHAHAHAHAHA (no, seriously)

    I still want to do a Dear Dirty Uncle segment

    ReplyDelete
  4. teee heee heee heee!
    I wanna birthday-crossover-edward-fellatio-fic, please.
    EXCELLENT blog, woman.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Hello,

    I very much enjoyed this edition of your guide to fanfiction etiquette. I find it really interesting to know what many of my favorite fanfiction authors think about various aspects of the fandom.

    There is a huge difference between criticism and constructive criticism. I often think that reviewers who leave unnecessarily critical reviews just don't take the time to think before they hit "submit." I think they forget that a real person spent hours and hours working on this hobby.

    I agree with everything that the authors posted on, especially what jenwordsong wrote about style and technique. If a reviewer feels the need to comment on style or technique, the story is not for them. Not everyone is going to like every story, but the style and technique is what makes each story its own.

    THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU for writing about the big annoyance that is requests in reviews. The more popular my story gets, the more requests I get. I haven't gotten the Beta request or the request to write a anime/Twilight fic (WEIRD), but I have gotten all the others. I hope many people read this and take it to heart.

    As always, thanks for writing.

    jmeyer

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  6. as ever... i love you, jmeyer. you're welcome, always and forever.

    and i totally forgot to thank everyone for their soundbites. pardon my assholio-ness. I LOVE YOU ALL RATHER HARD.

    ReplyDelete
  7. This one post hit me hard. So, I've been writing for a while and been getting some good feedback. Some constructive help, which has been really good too. And then, this week, on my b-day even (as specified IN my update) I got this review that in essense was good, but it just... bleh! made me cry. Yeah, I over reacted a little, but when you start your review by saying "I feel really guilty..." You probs shouldn't leave it as a review, yeah?
    So, I was bummed and almost lost my desire to keep writing the story. I mean, I have some really nice reviews, but it's the not-so-nice-one you remember most, right?
    Anyway, I took some time to think about it BEFORE responding (it was signed) and decided I really appreciated what she had to say, I just didn't appreciate it left in a review. It should have been PM'ed. And, it was mostly about the buildup in the previous chapters and since I'm now on chapter 14 (writing 15 as we speak) I'm not really able to go back and change it, you know?
    Anyway, rants aside here, I love this column because it makes me think bith as a writer and a reader and a reviewer. I've def become a nicer reviwer, making sure I reread my comment before posting. And it has saved the author from accidnetal heartfail.
    Thanks WTVO, you are fab for doing this and I look forwards to this segment everyday :) ( I know, smiley face, but it was fitting)

    ReplyDelete
  8. "Requests in reviews. Stop it."

    Best advice ever, hehe. Of course I'm always flattered when someone enjoys my writing enough that they want my input on their story, whether its as a beta or just a reader. But I barely have time to reply to reviews, write, read, and do my homework as it is.

    And I think if I ever got an anime crossover request, I would just... I don't even know. Possibly drink heavily. More power to you, wtvoc haha.

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  9. trust. i won't say which story the request is in, but let's just say it was early on. if you can find it, it's worth the laugh.

    and yeah, i forgot to add the bit about how nice and flattering requests are. which, again- assholio. sorry.

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  10. Sorry. I request stuff. And I refuse to stop.

    Jenny is going to make Bella a nun in Santuary.
    And she's going to seduce Edward in the confessional booth with the sly trick of no panties under her habit.

    It's GOING TO HAPPEN.

    And I won't stop requesting it.

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  11. K, so I'm late to the fiesta, but occassionally I do pull my head out of my ass, sorry I mean my thesis, and catch up with this amazing site.

    And there's this thing that's been bugging me for a while now:

    I love this column, it makes revlant points for the reviewers and reminds me of my responsiblity not only as a reader, but as an author as well. Which brings on these pesky thoughts (thanks WtVoC)

    So now I ask, "what about the author's responses to reviews???"

    Mostly because I'm paranoid I come off sounding like a total crazy (or worse an arrogant ass) when I respond to people.

    Could there be, or should there be, a "spin-off" or a singular segment discussing the different techniques of responding to reviews? The good, the succint (Wow. oh. Wow) the Ugly (You know we all like to ball out a virtual bitch now and again). Surely there's etiquette for that as well, no?

    Other things I'm curious about that fall under this buble:

    How many authors really do respond to all their reviews? Especially The Elite (yeah sue me, it's an allusion to my own fic) authors who get hundreds of reviews for every chapter written? What's their policy on responding?

    These are just thoughts, but there are a lot of qualified people on this site who could maybe spin this into a post for lil old me???

    ReplyDelete
  12. FoG yes. Interesting point. I try to respond to well thought out reviews and ones that acutually ask me questions. sometimes i can feel a new reader and i will do those too. But i do get too many to respond to the basic 'that was great' or 'thanks!' ones.

    I will say that many reviewers i respond to will PM back and say i am the only author who has ever responded back.

    ack! that is not a good sign. Also if necessary i will address questions and concerns in my a/n if there are enough.

    angel

    ReplyDelete

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